[ad_1] This is the tense moment two senior Russian and Ukrainian figures clash during a heated debate - live on Australian TV.Russian former Putin A
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This is the tense moment two senior Russian and Ukrainian figures clash during a heated debate – live on Australian TV.
Russian former Putin Adviser Sergei Markov and Ukrainian Defence Adviser Yuri Sak went head-to-head in a heated discussion with Erin Molan on Sky News Australia.
With Molan positioned in the middle of the screen, the host invited the two men on either side of her to voice their opinions about the ongoing Russia-Ukraine conflict.
With the failed Wagner rebellion coup leaving many questions unanswered, the journalist declares that it has been “one of the most extraordinary weeks” since the start of the Ukraine war.
She then asks a powerful question: is Vladimir Putin under threat?
Introducing the two men, she acknowledges that there will be “a lot of feelings” but asks them to both allow the other to speak, and she will allow time for the other to respond.
Speaking to Mr Markov, she asks whether he feels that Putin is losing his grip on power in Russia.
“I don’t think that Vladimir Putin is losing power. On the contrary, support has increased as a result of this rebellion,” the 65-year-old said.
He went on to claim that 70 per cent of people in Ukraine were Russian.
Asking Mr Sak to respond, she asks him what impact the attempted coup and the possibility of a civil war have upon the defence of Ukraine.
“Erin, I nearly just fell off my chair when Mr Markov said 70 per cent of people in my country are Russian,” he said.
“Read Google or Wikipedia because what you’re saying is complete nonsense.
“We are Ukrainian people, and we are fighting for our independence. We can care less about what is happening in Russia.
“The whole world can see that the events of the past week show that Russia is a failed state”
In a heated add-on, Mr Sak cries that Russia is a “terrorist state” that is “run by war criminals”.
He then asserted that there would come a day when they would stand trial for their “war crimes and atrocities – including the downing of MH17” – the passenger flight shot down by Russian-controlled forces in July 2014 while flying over eastern Ukraine.
Acknowledging some “strong words” from 56-year-old Mr Sak, Molan gave Mr Markov a chance to respond.
He claimed that what Mr Sak said was him spouting “propaganda”, while again insisting that the majority of the people in the Ukraine were Russian, due to the majority of them speaking the Russian language.
“That still doesn’t give you the right to invade, does it?” a heated Molan asks, to which Mr Markov responds with “why not?”.
“Because it’s an independent nation, Sergei, that’s why not” she asserts.
Mr Markov again speaks about the Russian language being spoken in Ukraine and attempts to compare it to how many people speak English in Australia.
“So, on the basis of that, you invade Ukraine” Molan asks forcefully..
“Ukraine, Ukrainian is not our enemy. Ukraine is our brother country,” Mr Markov loudly claims.
Passing back to Mr Sak, Molan asks him what his thoughts are on this claim, considering he has been on the ground during the war and has “seen the bloodshed first hand”.
“How do you respond to a former Putin Adviser saying you are Russia’s brother, family?” she asks.
Mr Sak stares at the screen in silence before he responds.
“Mr Markov, three days ago, a Russian Iskander ballistic missile hit a pizza place in the city of Kramatorsk, killing 12 people,” he said.
“Now, among those 12 people, there were three Ukrainian children. Now, because of everything you say, you killed those children.
“You are a terrorist and a war criminal. Be very careful about what you say. Supporting terrorists makes you a terrorist.”
Stating that she understands where Mr Sak is coming from, Molan reminds him that he needs to be careful about using “those kinds of allegations” due to not knowing Mr Markov’s direct involvement in the conflict.
“Erin, children were killed, and children are being killed every day,” Mr Sak replies, his voice raised.
While Molan says she understands where he is coming from, she also reminds him that she has to do her job.
Speaking to Mr Markov, she tells him that it is clear Russia’s invasion has “failed miserably” and asks him to acknowledge that he has “killed so many thousands of innocent people”.
“Your own people have been killed in a war that doesn’t make sense to anyone, except Vladimir Putin” she says.
“Do you accept that on any level?”
In his response, Mr Markov admits that Russia has “not been prepared for such an intensive war” and adds that they thought “liberation” would be easier than it has been.
As the heated debate ends, Molan asks Mr Sak whether he knows how the war will end.
“Yuri, do you compromise at all? How does this war end? How do your people stop dying,” she questions.
“This war ends with the inevitable victory of the Ukrainian army,” he responds, before thanking the Australian government for their help in providing military assistance.
He adds that he hopes this is “just the beginning” of Australia helping Ukraine fight the war.
The interview ends in a dramatic fashion, when Molan asks Mr Markov about the possibility of Putin using nuclear weapons – to which he responds that they would “probably not” because Ukraine is Russia’s “brother”.
“I can’t sit here and let you say that they are your brothers, given the war you have waged on those people,” Molan interrupted.
Both men then speak loudly over the top of each other, with Mr Sak saying that Russia is a “backward, failed state” and that they are “doomed”.
Molan ends the segment by thanking both men for their time, and asserting that she will support Ukraine until the war is over.
Taking to Instagram earlier today, Molan reflected upon the “heated, raw and confronting” debate she facilitated, and encouraged her followers to watch it.
“This is something I’ve been trying to do for a long time,” she wrote.
“Convincing two senior figures from opposing sides of the Ukraine/Russian war to come on air at the same time and debate on my Sky News Australia show ‘Erin’.
“I‘ve publicly condemned the invasion of Ukraine multiple times and I disagree vehemently with almost everything former Putin Adviser Sergei Markov believes.
“But I wanted to provide a platform for him to have his say – and more importantly from my perspective – watch him respond to Ukrainian Defence Adviser Yuri Sak – who is on the ground watching Ukrainian children die at the hands of Russian soldiers.
“It was heated, raw and confronting but important … I think. I encourage you to watch it.”
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